Thank you for bringing up this discussion for everyone's absolute clarity. This was an important question and point that needed to be addressed. Since you have been following my posts, then you MUST know that I have NEVER, I repeat NEVER have claimed that Groups are Illegal and for you to insinuate that is clearly a gross misunderstanding on your part, or a deliberate attempt at defamation. However, I will consider it just a misunderstanding. Please let me clear this up for you.
Legality Of Groups
On the matter of legality of "Groups," I will Quote myself from my prior post:
"Of course all this is if you are lucky enough to get into a "legitimate" group and are not scammed. The big problem is "We won't know which groups were legit until after the Exchange starts." It will be too late to make a change then or get more currency."
Notice that I clearly said "if you are lucky enough to get into a LEGITIMATE GROUP." Obviously, this means that there are LEGITIMATE GROUPS. So for you to spend so much time defending the facts that groups are legitimate, was just a waste of time. That is O.K. though because it gives me a chance to clear this up for those who are wondering.
I know you want me to say that All Groups are safe and can be trusted, but you know that is not true. If you even propose that notion, you are hopelessly ignorant of the Nasty Cabal World we live in. Even you MUST admit that there are Group scams out there who want to either steal currency outright, and/or control others money before, during and after the exchange. Will you agree with me that there ARE BAD GROUPS THAT NEED TO BE AVOIDED? Yes, I am sure you would agree to that.
Criminal Intent by A Group
The new laws that I am referring to are the new Constitutional laws that will be coming in with our new Republic. While I don't know them specifically, I do know that they judge criminality by the "Intent to Harm," and clearly, there are a lot of groups out there that use scare tactics to get members and that is NOT ABOVE BOARD. If a bank, used those tactics, to get customers, or sell securities, they would be locked up so fast it would make your head spin. So, it follows that since this does involve not hundreds of dollars, not even thousands of dollars, but instead Millions, Billions and even Trillions of dollars, the measure of intent will be very carefully scrutinized to protect the unaware public. It is under these conditions that I believe many groups will be taken down after the exchange. All it takes is one "Member" to claim they have been cheated and the hammer will fall. If the group is squeaky clean, it may survive, but if there is coercion, and false statements or other questionable tactics discovered, it may be very bad in these new times under Constitutional Law and NOT Statutory laws. But I am not an attorney, it is not my place to judge that criminal intent threshold, but I will say Buyer beware.
As far as specific comments about certain groups, I have great reservations as to their methods. The scare tactics that they are the only ones who can exchange for you, or that only they can get the higher rates, or that only groups will be able to exchange, is yet unproven. BUT, should it come out that any person could exchange INDIVIDUALLY, and even get the same rates if not higher, then it was a false claim and people are going to be mad, rightfully so. And speaking from a financial ethics perspective, if a bank said they were the ONLY ones who could exchange or that people WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO EXCHANGE ON THEIR OWN, and then later it was found out that they could.... well... that is a lie and it involves Trillions of dollars from fearful currency holders who were frightened into participating in a financial contract.... That would NEVER FLY in any other financial matter. I doubt it will be over looked after this goes. I have no doubt that people are going to find out that many, if not most of the things said were not true and they are going to be mad.... Dare I say Class Action?" I don’t know all of his claims as I don’t listen to him. I would only advise all those who do, to download his videos and keep the emails for later use if needed. But for now, all I can say is I DON'T TRUST SOME GROUPS.
The Value Of Groups
This brings us to the matter of the value of groups. Being the expert you infer that you are, you MUST know that many of the early groups were locked into low rates and that they would have been better off exchanging themselves as individuals.... Right? And if you are keeping up with Dinarland, then you MUST also have heard about the Privately negotiated Rates.... Right? I am not saying they are true as I can't prove it.... But, if they are, and people can negotiate as individuals for rates of 10 times more or 100 times more or thousands of times more that the screen rates.... why should they use a group to exchange?
Isn't it true that the Group controllers, whoever they are, take a cut from the whole exchange for their services? Or do you think they are doing it out of Love and that they take no fee or payment? I am just thinking out loud here because I really don't know, but I do know what makes sense to me.
Isn't it true, that even if you are in a group and they do exchange, members won’t get cash money to spend any sooner than individual exchangers.... Right? Or are you suggesting they do....? No, I doubt you would go there.
Isn't it true, that the members have to wait to get their money until the group paymasters decide to sent them the money, and isn't it also true that they paymasters decide how much they will send and when the payments are to be made?
Isn't it true that individual exchanges will walk out of the exchange fully funded with cash money that they can spend immediately? Isn't it true that this will be sooner than most group members will get their money and that most group members will NOT get all their money right away? Again I don’t know the answers to these questions as it is different with every group. But, as a group expert, you must know... Right?
Clearly these elements are part of the group exchange: The group controls the exchange and determines what the payee will get and when they will get it. The Group member has relinquished all power over their currency and no longer control it. Once they join the group, they are at the mercy of the integrity of others who they do not know. In case of dispute, their only remedy is a law suit which could take years to settle. Am I right on these points?
The Bottom Line
The bottom line is that I do agree that there are such thing as Legitimate Groups. However, that being said, I cannot think of one reason that anyone should be in a group. Even if you are lucky enough to get in a legitimate group, you are at the mercy of those in charge of the group, who will decide what you get and when you get it. My thoughts are WHY WOULD SOME ONE GIVE UP CONTROL OF THIS ONCE IN A LIFETIME OPPORTUNITY?
As an individual exchanger, anyone is eligible for extremely high rates, favorable terms, great perks, and immediate spendable cash in their account. They maintain complete control of their money and future throughout the entire process and have nothing to worry about.
Clearly Witch Doctor, you have some involvement in a group or two or else you wouldn't be so defensive on the part of groups? Is this so? Or are you just wanting people to know that Legitimate groups do exist? If that is the case, I will support your premise and agree 100% that is so. On the matter of legality and intent to harm, that will have to be handled by those who will be watching this process for the safety of all concerned. I will guess that many groups will be found guilty of intentional harm, including deceptive advertising, misleading videos, and inaccurate communications to their members. We will just have to wait and see.
By the way Witch Doctor, if you have a group that you wish to promote, one that will take no cut of the money, will make all funds immediately liquid and delivered to the members, will get paid BEFORE individual exchangers, and will guarantee that they are getting a higher rate than the individual could get on their own, please let us know about it.
Otherwise, thank you for the post and clarification. I feel better that we have covered this matter and established that there are legitimate groups as you say, and that provided they commit no fraudulent acts are legal as well. I hope this settles the matter for you.
Signed: One Who Knows
Thanks to Ssmith at: http://www.dinardaily.net