The Man Who Knew Seth Rich – John Mark Dougan Speaks from Exile in Moscow
If John Mark Dougan is to be belived, his story may represent the first break in the Seth Rich case in several months. He joins Crowdsource the Truth’s Jason Goodman, whose revoked livestreaming privileges on YouTube have been restored after 3 months for this first broadcast back on his original channel.
John Mark Dougan is a former West Palm Beach County cop who also ran several dissident and whistleblower websites, mostly relating to corruption in law enforcement, including PBSOTalk.com and DC Leaks.
It was in his capacity as an alternative media publisher that Dougan says he was contacted by Seth Rich in February of 2016. When Seth sent the files to Dougan via email, he had 45 FBI agents at his house the next morning, who seized his computers.
Driving straight to DC soon afterwards, he met with Seth Rich face to face at 4AM near the basketball court of Washington Metropolitan High School, where he received a thumb drive containing the DNC emails. Dougan adds, “I introduced that group of people to an intermediary that I know that knows Assange.”
Dougan managed to escape the FBI via Canada and he currently lives under political asylum in Moscow, from where he speaks here with Jason Goodman. He categorically denies being a “Russian hacker” or knowing Guccifer or Fancy Bear. He does believe that if anybody knows who stole the DNC’s emails, it would be Imran Awan, who was in charge of their IT.
Here are the relevant transcripts of this breakthrough interview with John Mark Dougan.
Dougan: I was contacted by a guy and I think it was like February 2016, with the emails from the DNC. At first, I kind of blew the guy off. I thought he was crackpot. A few weeks later, he kept pounding me and hounding me and I said, “Yeah well, send me one.”
It was in an EML file format and it looked very legitimate and I’m just saying to myself, “Well, one email, you can fake – but a lot of emails, you can’t.”
So, I [asked him], what else did he have? He said, “Well, I’ve got a whole bunch of them,” and I said, “Okay, go ahead and send them to me,” and he did.
I wound up getting 700 or so emails on that first dump. Of course, that was –
Goodman: Sorry to interrupt you, there, John – but just to be clear, the guy, of course we now understand to be Seth Rich. You didn’t know that at the time.
Dougan: No and I never asked his name. So, I don’t actually say “Seth Rich” – but that’s the dude in the picture – minus the crazy clothing.
Goodman: So, just to recap a little bit. You’re saying that he initially sent you these 700-and-some-odd emails, they were in an EML archive, which is the Microsoft Outlook email archive format and in preparing for our talk today, I’ve been listening to some of your other interviews and you’re feeling like it’s possible that even just looking at those emails on your computer may have somehow kind of ingested them into Outlook or sent them to your Outlook server, in such a way that authorities might have become aware that you had them.
Dougan: Yeah. I mean, I’m not sure. That’s one of the things that I had suspected but you know, all I know is the day after I got this dump, I had the FBI – I had like 45 agents in my house.
Goodman: Hmm. That’s a lot!
Dougan: Damn right, it’s a lot! they didn’t even send 45 agents to get the terrorists that shot up that place in California, the two brothers –
Goodman: San Bernardino or whatever?
Goodman: So, okay the FBI, obviously very interested in these leaks and it’s quite interesting to note that this is the same FBI that’s under scrutiny now in this hearing that’s going on in Congress, where they’re questioning the Inspector General and of course the new Director of the FBI who is Christopher Wray.
At the time, the Director would have been James Comey and it is interesting to note that James Comey – his lawyer – said that he couldn’t testify because he was out of the country – but then he sent a tweet that indicated that he was in Iowa!
So, Chuck Grassley became quite irritated with him! But it’s interesting to note that we’ve got these high-level law enforcement people who are seemingly unwilling to testify, seemingly making up stories and lies as to why they cannot do that and obviously, there’s got to be something huge at stake, here or they wouldn’t be doing that.
Now, the FBI took all of your stuff when they came to your house, right?
Dougan: Yeah and you know what kills me – remember the the guy that shot up the nightclub in Orlando?
Goodman: Yes. Omar Mateen.
Dougan: Yeah. They blew off his investigation to investigate me! They blew off the tip and he was out buying guns and body armor and they had all these agents following me [instead].
Goodman: Wow, that was in Orlando – so, you’re saying they redirected FBI resources –
Dougan: – It was in Orlando but he was buying all the stuff in the West Palm Beach area.
Goodman: And of course that’s where you were. That’s quite shocking to know and you still had friends in law enforcement, I assume. Were they able to tell you anything about this?
Dougan: No. Not really. I just know that they had gotten a tip about this Omar Mateen guy buying guns and body armor and they weren’t watching him. They said, “Well, you know there’s really nothing we can do.”
Yet, they were watching me. They had surveillance teams watching me and this guy is running around, planning a terrorist act. So, they’re blowing off terrorism investigations to target political dissidents – and that was the West Palm Beach branch of the FBI.
The West Palm Beach branch of the FBI also blew off the Parkland shooter and they blew off one other kid – there’s a kid in Palm Beach Gardens, he spent the night at his friend’s house and he had converted to Islam and while everybody was sleeping, he hacked off the one kid’s head and stabbed the mom and he stabbed a couple of other people.
Goodman: Wow, I didn’t even hear about that.
Dougan: And the FBI knew about him…
Goodman: Huh. It really furthers the question, John of “What is the FBI doing?”…It seems like you’re someone who should be a witness to an investigation for the FBI! The FBI should be investigating police corruption, not going and raiding the home of the guy who’s revealing it!
…So, they took all your stuff and then you, of course met with Seth Rich. We were looking last time at this lake that’s sort of near Howard University [Image of Google Earth view of McMillan Reservoir in DC]. Now, Seth Rich lived in the Bloomingdale neighborhood of Washington, DC, which is pretty close to Howard University, right here and we can see the facilities for Howard University. Have you been able, John to recall any more clearly?
Dougan: Yeah, I look back at my notes I think I sent them to you earlier today and again, I can’t remember the name of the school but it’s Washington-something High School and actually, as we said, [Seth] thought it was Howard University. Turned out the high school borders on Howard University.
[Goodman zooms in on Google Earth to the basketball court of Washington Metropolitan High School, where Dougan and Seth Rich met].
Goodman: And it was at this meeting that he handed you a thumb drive which was ostensibly a backup of the files that he had sent you – and he didn’t know about WikiLeaks, at this point – or how did that all come about…?
Dougan: So, when I set everything up, I used to use a hosting company called Shinjiro out of Malaysia because they have incredibly strong privacy laws…I wasn’t managing the website or anything like that. I didn’t have time. I set it up, what ten days, nine days after I got to Moscow and I just didn’t have a lot of time. I didn’t have any money and…I set it up and it was kind of their job to run everything…
Goodman: …So, you didn’t realize that you were meeting with Seth Rich. Let’s see if we can get to the street level, here with this basketball court…and this meeting, it coincided very closely with the what’s been characterized as a “email phishing attack” on the “Pod Father”, John Podesta. Do you think that you’re meeting with Seth Rich had anything to do with that?
Dougan: No, I think that was a guy from Cyber Command, who hacked or phished Podesta.
Goodman: Why do you think that?
Dougan: Because he said he was he was phishing people at DNC.
Goodman: Do you have any way of getting back in touch with that person?
Dougan: I tried writing in in June of 2017 and then July 2017. I tried writing all those guys and I never heard back from a single one.
Goodman: Hmm. Well, of course Seth Rich had allegedly been killed only days after the meeting in July, you’re talking 2017, now –
Dougan: No, I’m talking 2016.
Goodman: Sorry. Okay, so I know so that they would have been nervous if Seth Rich was in fact killed, which I have always doubted, simply because we’ve seen no autopsy, no ballistics, no police investigation – and in your experience in the six or seven years you the Palm Beach Sheriff’s Office, were there homicides that went uninvestigated and had no autopsies?
Dougan: No. No.
Goodman: Yeah, it just doesn’t happen.
Dougan: There’s really no autopsy?
Goodman: There’s no autopsy
Dougan: – or maybe it’s just classified.
Goodman: Why would that be the case? I mean, supposedly, this is just a botched robbery. It doesn’t seem–
Dougan: – But hold on. Sometimes, if the crime is under investigation, they won’t release some of that information and that case is still open, as far as I’ve read.
Goodman: Well, where have you read that? Because when I spoke to Rod Wheeler, who was a private detective who was hired to investigate the murder and a former DC Metro Police homicide detective, he said that he was told not to look into it. He was told to stand down. There is no official investigation. There is no autopsy. That’s what Rod Wheeler told me.
Dougan: Well, that could be but that doesn’t mean that they would close the case. The case could just be open and just sit open for the rest of our lives. And a lot of times, law enforcement agencies will do that; they’ll open up a case on somebody like, if it’s if it’s an unpleasant conversation like with me. They investigated me for eight years and they always, their answer to the media was, “Well, we can’t tell you what we’re investigating him for because it’s an active investigation.
Goodman: …so, you’re you’re a guy, that by all measures should be treated like a hero. I mean, a veteran…you’ve served this country as a Marine, as a police officer and you’ve been basically chased out. You’re there in Moscow, unable to return, you still hold the passport as a US citizen.
Dougan: Well, yeah. I don’t ever use it. I have my asylum documents. Wanna see what that looks like? [Smiles and shows documents]…
Goodman: …so, how does this all fit into what is going on right now in the United States; this Bob Mueller investigation into Russian hacking, them saying that Russia colluded with the Trump campaign? I mean…Seth Rich came to you, you don’t even know if Seth Rich was working with other people or not, where he got these emails from; he just presented you with these emails that you initially downloaded.
The FBI came to your place immediately, took all that stuff, you then went to DC, received a thumb drive that you still have, correct?
Dougan: I don’t have the drive, I have the files.
Goodman: You have the files.
Dougan: Actually, I do have to drive but I put a bunch of movies on it! (Laughs). I didn’t I didn’t know what the relevance was gonna be when I got here, you know I mean?
Goodman: So, you still have these files. Have they been released?
Dougan: Oh yeah, they were they released immediately…
You want to know why they’re pushing Russian Collusion? I’ll tell you exactly why. Because money. Boy. How do they how do they keep power? By keeping people scared. If you push the narrative that oh there’s a big bad Russian boogeyman out there, the people are gonna be throwing money at the Department of Defense, the FBI, the CIA, they’re just gonna be throwing money at them.
That’s how they’ve got to keep their budget, right? There’s no threat, the these law enforcement agencies will shrink or cease to exist.
Goodman: Right. We’ve seen, in the United States and around the world a lot of these private intelligence companies opening things like fusion GPS and CrowdStrike is one that specializes in cyber security. Of course, CrowdStrike is were the only group to have looked into these so-called hacked servers from the DNC. What can you tell us about this “Apartment 28” and Guccifer 2.0?
Dougan: I can’t tell you anything about him. I don’t know.
Goodman: Fancy Bear. None of this stuff has anything to do with the work that you were doing and you never heard of her and countered a guy named Imran Awan?
Dougan: I’ve heard of them because after I found out about the whole Seth Rich thing and it was very suspicious to me and then I had heard about whatever his name is, Imran Awan…and how the Democrats were like basically just giving him money, knowing he was under investigation, giving him money to send to Pakistan and then letting him flee there, right? They were like helping this guy and the only think is…that’s a guy who would have been in a position to find out who was taking these files
Goodman: Right. If Seth had somehow taken the files, Imran would know about that and that’s basically just speculation on your part…
…John, did the FBI seized all of your assets and freeze your bank accounts and stuff? It seems like you’re doing quite well, with the exotic car business and some of the other things.
Dougan: Well, actually okay so the exotic car business it wasn’t actually a business I set it up as a tax shelter for that particular car. So, in Florida if you set up what’s called a like a single asset operation or a single asset LLC and you register the vehicle or the airplane for that corporation, then when you sell the company the people don’t have to pay taxes; they’re buying the company and the assets. It just happened to come with it so it’s a very smart tax move…
Goodman: …the FBI seized all of your financial assets?
Dougan: No, not all of them.
Goodman: But it wasn’t like you were sitting on millions of dollars that they could seize, anyway.
Dougan: No, No, God, no, I didn’t have a lot.
Goodman: So, what can we do, moving forward here John to try and put some of these pieces together? I mean, people still want to know what happened to Seth Rich.
Fougan: I want to know.
Goodman: Right, so how how could we possibly do that…? If Robert Muller was sincere about his investigation into Russian hacking…he’d be wanting to talk to you not to say that you are a Russian hacker but there’s all these news articles there’s all this interaction that you’ve had with Seth Rich and all these entities here –
Dougan: Mueller’s not sincere. The whole bunch of ’em. Bunch of liars.
Goodman: Yeah, I agree with that I agree with that so…My guest right now is John Mark Dugan and John has met with Seth Rich.
You introduced Seth rich to the idea of WikiLeaks, didn’t you?
Dougan: I introduced that group of people to an intermediary that I know that knows Assange, yeah.
Goodman: So do you know if Seth Rich was the source of whatever to WikiLeaks?
Dougan: I don’t know
Goodman: Were the emails that WikiLeaks released the same as emails that you had?
Dougan: I don’t know. I’ve never been to WikiLeaks.
Goodman: That’s pretty surprising.
Dougan: When I got here, I’ve had to bust my ass, bust my hump every day to work. I don’t have money coming in, you know. I have to eat. I have to do all this other stuff. I’m waking up at 6:00AM in the morning, designing tables, writing my book and I’m not going to bed until you know twelve, one, two o’clock…I don’t have a lot of time to be paying attention to anything else except for trying to feed myself and see my kids, somehow.
Periscope is asking why did Seth Rich choose to contact you and that’s because you had this PBSO whistleblower site, right?
Dougan: Well it’s not just PBSOTalk, I’ve had I’ve had whistleblower sites all over the country and I’ve been chased by law enforcement all over the country, well, investigated by law enforcement all over the country…
Goodman: You had built a reputation as a guy who was making these confidential whistleblower sites and that’s what Seth Rich was looking for…
…Thank you for your time I think what we should do now is wrap it up and just let people know that they can order your book it’s going to be out later this week the book of course is called ‘Bad Volf’ that’s a book by John Mark Dugan and John is a guy who had met with Seth rich John is a whistleblower who has stood up to police corruption and basically gotten the shaft is there anything that we can do to close out this case and create a situation where you can return to the United States, John?
Dougan: Probably not. I don’t honestly I don’t trust the government enough to return to the United States.
Dougan: And frankly speaking, it’s actually really cool over here. I love this city. I don’t love it during the winter but I love the city, in general and other than the fact that my family’s in the United States; if I didn’t have a family, I’d probably never return.
Goodman: Well, we’re looking forward to you having a chance to see – you have one kid or more than one kid?
Dougan: I have two. An 8 year old son and a 10 year old daughter.
Goodman: Right and we’re hopeful that you’ll be able to be reunited with them soon.
Martin de Beer is asking me to ask about the chain of command. Does it end with the coroner being the highest in command?
We’ve been told is that the coroner is the highest law enforcement authority in a county; that they’re the only one who can arrest the sheriff.
Dougan: Wow, that could be I don’t know. I’ve never heard that.
Goodman: There’s got to be certain details about things like that that the average officers maybe not directly familiar with
Dougan: Yeah, I think anybody can arrest a sheriff. For instance, if there’s a sheriff drinking and driving and you pulled them over, you definitely arrest them – not they would.
Goodman: But what if there’s a sheriff stealing guns out of evidence to plant on minorities as they were in your county, how come nobody arrested that Sheriff?
Dougan: Oh, well, because he got a promotion, that’s why he’s the sheriff.
Goodman: Well, I want to thank you for joining us today I want to remind everybody that Crowdsource the Truth is out of YouTube jail and thank you so much for being my first guest on our livestream here, back on the original Channel.
Dougan: Yeah, no problem. One day, you’re gonna have to tell me why you repeat to jail while we were in YouTube jail because we bring everybody controversial guests like yourself, who some people don’t want coming forward with this type of information so we received malicious anonymous strikes from people…they’re anonymous, so we don’t really know but it’s probably the same people that are bringing lawsuits against me and yes, there is another lawsuit that has been filed against myself and the plan, of course is to financially drain me and just as John has been run out of his county there in Florida and forced to go to Russia, I think there are certain people that want me to shut up in the same way they wanted you to because guys like you and I have a tendency to bring forward information that certain people don’t want to be brought forward and that’s why Crowdsource the Truth has been set up as a community sponsored news resource. There is no billion dollar advertiser there is no one providing thousands of dollars or hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars, there is no monthly payments coming from foreign intelligence services, Crowdsource the Truth relies on you, the audience to keep us going so if you’re watching and if you appreciate having us back here on the main channel please go to patreon.com/crowdsourcethetruth and become a sponsor I want to remind everyone also to go to https://badvolf.com and buy the book if you need a computer desk, you can also get some really handsome computer desks designed by our friend John, here and you can see all those online.
John, I want to thank you so much for joining us today. I apologize that we’ve got a black screen there but people can check out all those exciting days will help you back real soon and enjoy the evening there in Moscow. Thanks everybody for watching.
Dougan: Hey, tell whoever orders my book they can ask one question.
Goodman: Okay, there you go. You can ask questions directly of John and we’ll have you back on in the future, so people can maybe save up their questions. They can email them to truth at crowdsource the truth org.
I will see you soon John thanks for joining me and thanks for watching everybody! See you tomorrow.
Thanks to: https://forbiddenknowledgetv.net